Legislature(2001 - 2002)
03/04/2002 03:20 PM House L&C
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
HOUSE LABOR AND COMMERCE STANDING COMMITTEE
March 4, 2002
3:20 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Lisa Murkowski, Chair
Representative Andrew Halcro, Vice Chair
Representative Kevin Meyer
Representative Pete Kott
Representative Norman Rokeberg
Representative Harry Crawford
Representative Joe Hayes
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE BILL NO. 418
"An Act amending the Alaska Corporations Code as it relates to
delivery of annual reports, notice of shareholders' meetings,
proxy statements, and other information to shareholders, and
providing for electronic proxy voting."
- MOVED CSHB 418(L&C) OUT OF COMMITTEE
HOUSE BILL NO. 472
"An Act relating to persons who buy and sell secondhand articles
and to certain persons who lend money on secondhand articles."
- HEARD AND HELD
HOUSE BILL NO. 128
"An Act relating to employment of certain minors in
agriculture."
- MOVED CSHB 128(L&C) OUT OF COMMITTEE
HOUSE BILL NO. 318
"An Act relating to a health insurance uniform prescription drug
information card; and providing for an effective date."
- BILL HEARING POSTPONED
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 418
SHORT TITLE:ELECTRONIC PROXY VOTING & NOTIFICATION
SPONSOR(S): LABOR & COMMERCE BY REQUEST
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
02/13/02 2242 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME -
REFERRALS
02/13/02 2242 (H) L&C
02/27/02 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17
02/27/02 (H) Heard & Held
MINUTE(L&C)
03/04/02 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17
BILL: HB 472
SHORT TITLE:PAWNBROKERS/SECONDHAND DEALERS
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S)GREEN
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
02/19/02 2315 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME -
REFERRALS
02/19/02 2315 (H) L&C, JUD
02/19/02 2315 (H) REFERRED TO LABOR & COMMERCE
03/04/02 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17
BILL: HB 128
SHORT TITLE:EMPLOYMENT OF MINORS IN AGRICULTURE
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S)OGAN
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
02/14/01 0317 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME -
REFERRALS
02/14/01 0317 (H) L&C
03/26/01 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17
03/26/01 (H) Heard & Held -- Assigned to
Subcommittee
03/26/01 (H) MINUTE(L&C)
04/18/01 (H) MINUTE(L&C)
04/20/01 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17
04/20/01 (H) Heard & Held
04/20/01 (H) MINUTE(L&C)
03/04/02 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17
WITNESS REGISTER
BUDD SIMPSON, Attorney
Simpson, Tillinghast, Sorensen & Longenbaugh
One Sealaska Corporation, Suite 300
Juneau, Alaska 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on behalf of Sealaska Corporation
in regard to minor changes necessary to [Version F] of HB 418.
TERRY ELDER, Director
Division of Banking, Securities & Corporations
Department of Community & Economic Development
PO Box 110807
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0807
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on [Version F] of HB 418.
LAURA ACHEE, Staff
to Representative Joe Green
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 403
Juneau, Alaska 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented HB 472 to the committee on behalf
of Representative Green, sponsor.
CYNTHIA BRIDGES, Detective
Anchorage Police Department
4501 South Bragaw Street
Anchorage, Alaska 99501
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions relating to HB 472 and
informed the committee of the Anchorage municipal codes relating
to pawnshops.
DAN HOFFMAN, Lieutenant
Fairbanks Police Department
656 7th Avenue
Fairbanks, Alaska 99701
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified that he hopes HB 472 is going to
lay the groundwork for every police department in Alaska to
agree on a single reporting system, and that an online or web-
based system would be the acceptable reporting format.
BERTHA BAUGUS
Roy's Pawn Shop
PO Box 718
Delta Junction, Alaska 99737
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 472.
JULIA GRIMES, Lieutenant
Division of Alaska State Troopers
Department of Public Safety
3700 East Tudor Road
Anchorage, Alaska 99507
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of the intent of HB
472.
REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room
Juneau, Alaska 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as the sponsor of HB 128 in
support of Version O.
REBECCA NANCE GAMEZ, Deputy Commissioner
Office of the Commissioner
Department of Labor & Workforce Development
PO Box 21149
Juneau, Alaska 99802-1149
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified that the department is
comfortable with Version O.
RICHARD MASTRIANO, Director
Division of Labor Standards & Safety
Department of Labor & Workforce Development
PO Box 10721
Anchorage, Alaska 99510-7021
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions relating to Version O of
HB 128.
LARRY DeVILBISS
Wolverine Farm & Farm Bureau
HC04-9302
Palmer, Alaska 99645
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified that [Version O] of HB 128 is a
win-win situation.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 02-29, SIDE A
Number 001
CHAIR LISA MURKOWSKI called the House Labor and Commerce
Standing Committee meeting to order at 3:20 p.m.
Representatives Murkowski, Halcro, Meyer, Rokeberg, and Crawford
were present at the call to order. Representatives Kott and
Hayes arrived as the meeting was in progress.
HB 418-ELECTRONIC PROXY VOTING & NOTIFICATION
CHAIR MURKOWSKI announced that the first order of business would
be HOUSE BILL NO. 418, "An Act amending the Alaska Corporations
Code as it relates to delivery of annual reports, notice of
shareholders' meetings, proxy statements, and other information
to shareholders, and providing for electronic proxy voting."
Number 050
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG moved to adopt CSHB 418, version 22-
LS13335\F, Bannister, 3/4/02, as the working document. There
being no objection, Version F was before the committee.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked if the amendments included in the
packet are included in Version F.
CHAIR MURKOWSKI replied yes. Chair Murkowski related her
understanding that the amendments were suggested by the Division
Banking, Securities & Corporations (DBSC) of the Department of
Community & Economic Development (DCED).
Number 072
BUDD SIMPSON, Attorney, Simpson, Tillinghast, Sorensen &
Longenbaugh, representing Sealaska Corporation, explained how
the changes were made. Mr. Simpson said "we" are prepared to
accept [Version F]. However, he noted the following
typographical errors. In Section 1, page 1, line 7, there
should contain a subparagraph (a). On page 4, line 24, he
suggested that the list of items that shouldn't be sent should
include "a dividend payment".
CHAIR MURKOWSKI pointed out that the latter suggestion is
addressed in later sections. She clarified that this isn't
addressing the issue of no longer forwarding dividends in the
mail.
MR. SIMPSON agreed. He directed attention to [subparagraph] (2)
at the bottom of page [4], which says that "during a period of
at least 12 months, at least two payments of dividends or
interest on securities". He explained, "It needs to refer back
to that first section is all, in order to be correct." He
directed the committee to page 5, line 28, which should read:
"in person; or". The "or" was inadvertently left out, he noted.
Number 135
REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO posed a situation in which two dividend
checks are returned because the address is "undeliverable." He
asked what would happen in such a situation.
MR. SIMPSON informed the committee that Sealaska Corporation
maintains an escrow account for funds that are undeliverable.
If a shareholder has been missing for some time, the
[corporation] goes to great lengths to locate the shareholder
and has hired an investigator. However, such lengths aren't
taken when the shareholder has been missing for only one year or
so. He indicated a dividend that remains uncollected for many
years can escheat at some point.
REPRESENTATIVE HAYES inquired as to whether the amendments
introduced today would change the fiscal note to zero for both
years.
CHAIR MURKOWSKI announced that was her understanding. However,
she said the division could address that.
Number 172
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG turned to page 4, subsection (c), which
is where Mr. Simpson recommended including "dividends".
However, he pointed out that page 5, line 1, refers to
"dividends or interest on securities, or at least two dividend
reinvestment confirmations". Representative Rokeberg asked if
all the specific types of corporate payouts have to be listed or
if there is a term of art that encompasses all those.
MR. SIMPSON said listing the entire list would be safe, but he
was hoping to use a more shorthand form.
CHAIR MURKOWSKI asked if payments to shareholders or shareholder
payments would include dividends and interest on securities.
MR. SIMPSON suggested inserting the following language on [page
4], line 24, after "send": "a payment to shareholders or notice
thereof". The aforementioned language would cover the dividend
reinvestment confirmation. Furthermore, the term "payment" is a
broader term than "dividend".
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG related his understanding, then, that it
would read as follows: "A corporation is not required to send a
payment to shareholders or notice thereof".
CHAIR MURKOWSKI noted that she was inserting Mr. Simpson's
suggested language on [page 4], line 25, after "annual report".
MR. SIMPSON said that would be acceptable.
Number 218
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG moved that the committee adopt
conceptual Amendment 1, on [page 4] line 25, after "annual
report," to insert "a payment to shareholders or notice
thereof". There being no objection, conceptual Amendment 1 was
adopted.
Number 231
TERRY ELDER, Director, Division of Banking, Securities &
Corporations, Department of Community & Economic Development,
expressed his happiness in the fact that he and Mr. Simpson were
able to come to agreement on a number of amendments that
addressed [the division's] concerns. Therefore, the division
has submitted a zero fiscal note for [Version F]. Although
there will be a cost due to the adjustment of the regulations,
the plan is to do it as part of the regular regulation review
process. Mr. Elder explained that the main item that moved the
division to the zero fiscal note and away from the investigator
was the addition of the provision [in Version F] that allows for
any legal proxy to be treated in the same manner if a
corporation adopts rules that provide for the electronic voting
proxies. [The division] feels that goes far in ensuring that
there is a level playing field between corporation proxies and
independent proxies.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG remarked that Representative Halcro had
made a good point earlier. Representative Rokeberg asked if the
statute includes a provision regarding the requirement relating
to nondelivered dividends or fiduciary instruments.
MR. ELDER said he would have to review Title 10 in order to
determine whether that matter is discussed elsewhere. He noted
that his only concern is in regard to whether this section is
the appropriate section to include that, because this section
[AS 10.06.411] speaks to the delivery of information to
shareholders. He added, "If you're comfortable doing that,
fine, but there may be some other section that's more
appropriate and [Legislative Legal Services], in fact, may
recommend a different one." However, he said, he understood
[Mr. Simpson's] point that if dividends and interest payments
are sent out and are returned, there is no point in continuing
to send those out. Mr. Elder said he was guessing that the
corporations would be required to maintain those holdings for
the benefit of the shareholder, although there may a specific
time period in which the money would be considered to be
"legally dead."
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG inquired as to the current provision
under the property law regarding the banks' ability to
distribute funds to the state if there is no claimant to the
money.
MR. ELDER answered that although he recalled the time period
that the money had to be held to be quite a while, he wasn't
sure of the specific time.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said he didn't mind having it as a de
facto provision. However, a specific statutory dictate has been
created in regard to the action of a corporation, but the
corporation hasn't been told what to do if those items can't be
delivered. Therefore, he indicated his liking of [Sealaska
Corporation's policy] to hold the funds with interest until such
time that the individual can be found.
MR. ELDER commented that he would be surprised if that isn't
already required, but said he'd have to review it.
Number 309
REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO informed the committee that some
cooperatives such as Chugach Electric that send out dividends
which are returned place a list of the names relating to the
returned dividends in the newspaper. He surmised that is done
because it satisfies some public-notice provision for state law,
and that a corporation in the same situation would operate under
the same rules.
MR. ELDER agreed and recalled that a number of newsletters from
various Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act (ANCSA)
corporations, which go out to all the shareholders, include a
similar type of notice.
CHAIR MURKOWSKI pointed out that the statutes pertaining to real
property say that after seven years from the date of judgment,
the [property] can escheat to the state. Chair Murkowski agreed
to have staff check into this matter.
Number 349
REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO moved to adopt conceptual Amendment 2, on
page 5, line 28, after "person;", to insert "or". There being
no objection, conceptual Amendment 2 was adopted.
CHAIR MURKOWSKI announced that the lack of subsection (a) in
Section 1 is a drafting issue that the drafters can address
[without an amendment].
REPRESENTATIVE HAYES moved to report CSHB 418 [version 22-
LS13335\F, Bannister, 3/4/02, as amended] out of committee with
individual recommendations and the accompanying zero fiscal
note. There being no objection, CSHB 418(L&C) was moved out of
the House Labor and Commerce Standing Committee.
HB 472-PAWNBROKERS/SECONDHAND DEALERS
CHAIR MURKOWSKI announced that the next order of business would
be HOUSE BILL NO. 472, "An Act relating to persons who buy and
sell secondhand articles and to certain persons who lend money
on secondhand articles."
Number 379
LAURA ACHEE, Staff to Representative Joe Green, Alaska State
Legislature, introduced HB 472 on behalf of Representative
Green, sponsor. She said currently in the Municipality of
Anchorage, pawnshops and other types of secondhand dealers such
as fur shops are required to make weekly reports to the
Anchorage Police Department (APD) of all of the items that they
receive and sell as pawned goods. The reasoning is it allows
the police department to match up these records of items taken
in against records of stolen goods, in an effort to hopefully
return those stolen goods to the original owners. This system
has been working well in Anchorage.
Number 385
MS. ACHEE explained that this law is limited to Anchorage.
State statute now requires all pawnshops across Alaska to keep
very detailed records and that the records be open to law
enforcement. Unfortunately, law enforcement agencies don't have
the manpower to send someone around to go through the record
books of each pawnshop every time there is a record of a stolen
item.
MS. ACHEE said HB 472 is modeled after the Anchorage municipal
code and would require that pawnshops across the state make
weekly reports to either the local municipal agency or the state
troopers of items taken in during the week. The bill makes
another addition to the state statute [relating to] the
municipal code, requiring a written description of the person
[who pawned the item]. The reasoning is that if an item turns
up stolen, then the police have a physical description in
addition to the identification (ID) of the person who pawned the
item. She said she has been working with Detective Cynthia
Bridges from the APD; Officer Dan Hoffman from the Fairbanks
Police Department; and Officer Simon Brown, usually of the
Alaska State Troopers but who, as a [National] Guard member, is
currently on active duty and may not be able to call in to
testify. She said Detective Bridges and Officer Hoffman should
be able to call in to testify.
Number 405
CHAIR MURKOWSKI asked, since HB 472 is modeled after the
Anchorage municipal code, whether there are forms already in
place for filling in physical descriptions. She said as she
understands it, the form is provided by or in a format
acceptable to the police department or the state troopers. She
asked Ms. Achee if HB 472 is trying to get a uniform type of
form or if it matters.
MS. ACHEE deferred to Detective Bridges to answer the question
regarding what Anchorage is currently using as a form.
Number 417
REPRESENTATIVE HAYES commented that if this is going to be a
statewide program, each part of the state might want to do this
differently. He asked, "How do we go about doing that? ...
Why is the state doing this in general? Why not do this through
municipalities?" He explained that one basic argument regarding
the [state] budget is that perhaps the state does more than it
should in areas the cities and municipalities should cover. He
asked why the state wants to get involved in doing this.
Number 423
MS. ACHEE answered that the statute is worded such that it would
be up to each individual municipality or the state troopers, if
they have jurisdiction, on what they would like to see in the
report. She mentioned that although she doesn't know the exact
date, some officers whom she's been working with are getting
together this month [March] to look at software that tracks
incoming reports - the idea being that if they could agree on
one they all liked, they could go back to their agencies and
have that software purchased, and could all be on the same page.
She remarked, "There's a real nice spirit of cooperation out
there among the different agencies."
MS. ACHEE responded to Representative Hayes's second question,
regarding whether there is "stepping into some municipal
jurisdiction." She explained that if an item stolen in
Anchorage is pawned in Fairbanks, this state law would affect
the Anchorage resident as well as the Fairbanks pawnbroker. She
offered that this is why she thinks it is a statewide issue.
REPRESENTATIVE HAYES replied that if it is stolen property, no
matter what part of the state it is in, he doesn't see why there
would be a jurisdictional problem with stolen property, "which
is overarching anyway." He said the City of Fairbanks has a
very tight budget, so "the agencies have to pay for whatever to
do this." He suggested this law would be an unfunded mandate.
He offered that he doesn't know why there needs to be a state
law when it sounds as though municipalities already do this.
Number 446
MS. ACHEE replied that the idea is to get the items back to the
people to whom they belong. The [City] of Fairbanks does not
have any similar laws on the books. She said she would let
Officer Hoffman address that issue because it is something that
he is frustrated with.
MS. ACHEE said it is her understanding, after several casual
conversations with Officer Brown from the Alaska State Troopers,
that there is actually traffic from people who steal things in
one part of the state and disposing of them in another part to
help hide their tracks. Regarding money, she said it is a big
question and that there is going to be a cost involved for the
in-taking agencies. She stated:
I'm speaking for Officer Brown, since I'm not sure if
he's going to be able to phone in today; he's actually
put a lot of thought and a lot of work into this. ...
He uses welfare-to-work folks to come in and do the
data entry, which provides job experience for them and
low-cost data entry for the state. So it's a win-win
situation.
Number 462
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER brought attention to the reference in the
bill to keeping track of transactions in a "book". He asked if
a "book" is a journal or could also be a computer record.
MS. ACHEE said the statute predates HB 472, so now it probably
is a physical book or journal. She mentioned that a few shops
in the state aren't computerized and probably keep records in a
physical book. Many shops in Anchorage are computerized,
however, and keep records on a computer.
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER asked if the shop owners who have access to
a computer are using a physical book also.
MS. ACHEE responded that she doesn't know. She said the issue
of whether the word "book" needs to be used in the statute
anymore should be addressed.
Number 474
CHAIR MURKOWSKI referred to AS 08.76.020(b), which read in part:
Sec. 08.76.020. Manner of recording entry.
The entries shall appear in chronological order, in
ink or indelible pencil. Blank lines may not be left
between entries. Obliterations, alterations, or
erasures may not be made.
CHAIR MURKOWSKI remarked, "This is something that we want to get
rid of because it would prohibit the ability to use the
software, which sounds like the real deal here."
Number 480
MS. ACHEE referred to her classroom experience while obtaining
her degree in biology. She recalled that in classes where there
were scientific experiments, the students had to follow in the
model they would later use if they became researchers. It was
very important that the notebook not have any pages removed,
that it be written in indelible ink, and that errors be drawn
through with a line for the sake of being able to prove no
[inappropriate] changes had been made to the document. While
she agreed that requiring in statute that a book be used could
potentially put those businesses that only use computers in
jeopardy, she emphasized that the intent is very important to
maintain.
CHAIR MURKOWSKI agreed with Ms. Achee's point about maintaining
the intent.
Number 489
MS. ACHEE mentioned that she has done a little research and
found that a number of software programs are available to
pawnshops. She said she isn't sure if that software allows
changes or not, but it probably needs to be researched. She
added, "I think that all of the pawnbrokers in Alaska are
probably very upstanding people who are not going to be out
there ... taking in goods that they're not recording. But these
are things you need to be aware of could happen."
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER addressed the issue of the definition of a
pawnshop. He asked if a shop like Play It Again Sports would be
considered a pawnshop.
MS. ACHEE said that question has been raised before and she does
not have an answer.
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER inquired about the number of pawnshops
currently in Alaska.
MS. ACHEE said through an informal search she'd performed on
Yahoo Yellow Pages, she'd found about 55 stores under the
category of pawnshops, half of which are in Anchorage.
Number 502
REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO referred to page 1, lines 12-14, which
outlines the physical description of the customer including
"age, height, weight, race, color of hair, and color of eyes".
He asked if this is currently being done in Anchorage.
MS. ACHEE replied in the affirmative.
REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO asked if there have been any concerns with
civil liberties being violated.
MS. ACHEE said she isn't aware of any concerns in Anchorage
regarding that. She mentioned a position held by the National
Pawnbrokers Association that while it agrees this information
should be taken down, it doesn't necessarily agree it should be
transmitted to the police agencies as part of the weekly or
daily reports. It argues that while the information should be
retained on record, it shouldn't be transmitted unless called
for by the police agency.
REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO offered that the National Pawnbrokers
Association's position sounds pretty reasonable. If there is a
hit in the journal that indicates there is a stolen item and a
specific person brought it in, the police could then go back to
the pawnshop and ask for a more detailed record of the person's
physical description. He asked if this has been considered.
MS. ACHEE asked, "Changing the bill?"
REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO restated the aforementioned, which is to
basically allow the pawnbroker to keep this information private
until the police come back and say, "We have a hit on this one
item you've logged into your journal book. We'd like to know
more about the customer."
Number 521
MS. ACHEE said as the bill is currently written, it doesn't
specify what needs to be in the report to the local agencies.
She offered that she thinks right now it would be up to the
individual police agencies what information they are looking
for. She said:
I know that the Anchorage Police Department does
receive that information on [its] reports and have
used it in reverse when someone has said, "Well, I
think my son stole something from me." Then they've
used it in reverse and looked for the item by person
selling or pawning it, and found items that way as
well.
Number 526
CHAIR MURKOWSKI referred to page 2, Section 3, subsection (b),
where it does provide that the information under AS 08.76.010 is
required. She said it sounds as though the summary would have
to contain this information, although it doesn't describe how it
would be formatted.
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD addressed the topic of documenting the
physical description of the customer, and offered that it might
be just as good if the pawnbrokers were given the choice of
taking a video recording instead of writing down the
description. He also asked if it is required to let the
customer know that his/her physical description is being taken
down.
MS. ACHEE replied that if the committee and the legislature as a
whole wanted to include the option of a video, she thought that
would probably be a good idea. She said she isn't sure what the
rules are for what's admissible in court and how one identifies
someone in a case in which someone brought in stolen goods.
MS. ACHEE, in response to Representative Crawford's second
question, said since she has not worked in a pawnshop, she
doesn't know if the customer is aware that his/her
characteristics are being taken down.
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD mentioned that the bill doesn't specify
whether or not the identification card has to be a picture ID.
He asked, "Shouldn't we specify that it should be a picture ID
and not just a social security card?"
Number 550
MS. ACHEE said it was a good idea if the committee was willing
to entertain that.
CHAIR MURKOWSKI offered one problem, that in some smaller,
remote communities there isn't access to picture IDs. In these
communities, airport security has been an issue because some
people don't have anything to present that establishes their
true identities. She mentioned conversations with Mary
Marshburn, Director, Division of Motor Vehicle (DMV), Department
of Administration, concerning how to get DMV to go out and issue
state IDs or something to give these folks some kind of picture
ID.
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD suggested that if the customer doesn't
have a picture ID, then the pawnbroker could take a video in
lieu of the picture ID. He said, "I can't imagine a pawnshop in
the state that doesn't have a video camera in it, or ten."
Number 565
CYNTHIA BRIDGES, Detective, Anchorage Police Department (APD),
testified via teleconference. She said in Anchorage there are
several different ways that the 23 pawnshops report to [the
APD]. Some pawnshops report on paper, while others either e-
mail the report or have a computer disc with the report that is
collected on a weekly basis. She offered that the police
department provides the pawnbrokers with pawn tickets, and other
agencies could duplicate the tickets or have a copy of them and
make their own off of [the police department's] copy. She said
while most of the pawnshops are computerized, they are required
to maintain a hard copy when there is a transaction. This is a
safety measure just on the off chance the computer records are
destroyed.
Number 580
MS. BRIDGES explained that there's a disclaimer on the bottom of
the pawn ticket that the customer or "pawner" is required to
read and sign, which basically states that the person owns the
property. There's a blank on the pawn ticket for the customer
to fill out regarding the number of months and years that the
person has owned it. The customer must then sign the pawn
ticket also. If the customer signs and [the police department]
can prove the item probably didn't belong to that person in the
length of time declared, that person can be arrested for theft
by deception. She explained that this is one thing that helps
[the police department] to be able to charge people who pawn
stolen property.
MS. BRIDGES continued, explaining that Play It Again Sports in
Anchorage is required to report to [the police department] also.
She mentioned that it has recently changed owners, and the new
owner has asked whether the reporting requirement would
continue; Ms. Bridges said she's still trying to find the answer
to that inquiry. She added, "Apparently, they're not required
to have a pawnbroker's license, so ... I'm not sure if they're
going to be required to report to us." She said although that
business takes in quite a bit of property that could possibly be
stolen, she has never had any problems with the business in the
two years she has been doing pawn. However, it still is
required to report.
Number 590
MS. BRIDGES mentioned that the name information is very
important for the APD to receive.
TAPE 02-29, SIDE B
Number 592
MS. BRIDGES explained a current situation in which a young lady
had a couple pieces of jewelry stolen and called to report it,
saying she'd had people over at her house and knew someone took
the jewelry. She continued describing the situation:
She gave me names. I checked the names. None of
those people had done it. But she also said, "There's
this other gal, her name was April, and I know she
pawned the jewelry at Cash Alaska - Muldoon." So I
got on our system and looked for the particular date
that she was saying that the jewelry went missing, and
sure enough, I did find April, and I was able to find
out who April was. And hopefully we'll be able to
recover this jewelry for her.
Number 584
MS. BRIDGES mentioned that [the report] doesn't go out to the
public; it's just for [the police] department's use. She
offered that it would be good with outside agencies also. She
explained:
For example, [if] Lieutenant Hoffman in Fairbanks has
a suspect that he felt possibly came to Anchorage and
pawned some property, he could call me and say, "Could
you run this person in your system to see if they've
made any pawns locally in the past week." And I could
run that person's name and ... say, "Yeah, ... he
pawned ... a Makita drill." ...
A lot of people do not record serial numbers. There
[is] a lot of property out there that is serialized,
but they do not record the numbers. And the problem
that we have is, if we go in and look just for a
generic item, say, a Makita drill, we may have 20
pawned in a week. Without that serial number, we may
not be able to return it to the owner. But if the
owner says, "Hey, ... I think my employee, John Doe,
pawned my drill," ... his name is in the report; I
get the report, [and] then I can run that guy's name
in the computer, and if he did pawn a drill, then I
can recover it.
Number 574
MS. BRIDGES asked, in regard to villages that don't have photo
IDs, if there even are pawnshops there. If there are, she asked
whether the owners can vouch for people's identities even though
they don't look at a picture ID, because of knowing a person for
20 years, for example. She emphasized that the whole point of
the picture ID is for the clerk to be able to look at it and
say, "Yes, this is the person who pawned this item. I looked at
their ID, I looked at them, and I verified it was, in fact, the
same person."
MS. BRIDGES offered that there are issues when people obtain a
fake ID that has the correct picture but a different name. She
said:
It's not required here in Anchorage; I'd like to see
it required, but it's not required at this point. ...
In some of the smaller towns, they might not have a
picture ID. ... The whole point of doing this and
looking at the picture ID is if the property was
stolen, we can determine who pawned it and be positive
that that's the person that pawned it. So maybe if
the picture ID is not available, a fingerprint - so if
for any reason that piece of merchandise [that] is
pawned comes up stolen, we can go back and say, "Okay,
you provided a fingerprint when you pawned the item.
Would you be willing to provide another fingerprint
for comparison?"
Number 553
MS. BRIDGES mentioned that many pawnshops in Anchorage have
video cameras, but not all do. She offered that maybe a digital
photo could be another option if a customer doesn't have a photo
ID.
MS. BRIDGES said, "We [in Anchorage] are proud of our ordinance
regarding the pawnshops. We do not get a lot of problems with
our pawnshops. They are very good at complying with the
ordinance." She added, "We're trying to strive to change a few
things." She explained that [Anchorage] would like to see real-
time reporting or reporting on a daily basis, whereby there is a
better chance of recovering more stolen property. She said
Anchorage recovers hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in
stolen property. She stated:
Some of the crooks are getting wise to the fact that
we recover stuff from the pawnshops [that] they do
take ... out of town. Palmer [or] Wasilla is not too
far away that they can't just take a short drive out
to the valley and pawn the stuff. We can't recover it
from there, because they don't report like they do
here in Anchorage. ... If they had the same ... or
similar setup that we do, then it would be a lot
easier in recovering a lot more stolen property.
Number 535
CHAIR MURKOWSKI referred to Play It Again Sports and said,
looking at the statute, it is clearly a business engaged in
buying and selling secondhand articles. She mentioned that
women's consignment shops would be included also. She offered
that she can't imagine that these entities would require
something as specific as a pawnbroker license, and in looking at
the statute, she thought this might be an opportunity to define
pawnbrokers. She asked if the requirements to have a pawnbroker
license are in the Anchorage municipal code.
MS. BRIDGES referred to the Anchorage Municipal Charter, Codes
and Regulations, 10.20.025, which read in part:
Required. No person may engage in the business of
lending money on security of personal property
physically taken and held, or purchasing articles of
personal property and reselling or agreeing to resell
the articles to the vendor or an assignee at a price
agreed upon at or before the time of purchase, without
first having obtained a pawnbroker's license from the
municipal clerk.
Number 516
CHAIR MURKOWSKI said she isn't sure if that tells her anything
more than she knew before. She said this is important
information to have for the pawnshops and their reporting, but
it seems there's a group that could be dragged unnecessarily
into this. She said she isn't quite sure how that issue should
be addressed yet. She offered that it may just be by inserting
a definition of pawnbroker somewhere.
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD asked Ms. Bridges if it would make her
job easier if there were a record of a photo ID, rather than
just a written description of the customer.
MS. BRIDGES said it would definitely make her job a lot easier.
In Anchorage, pawnshops are required to collect the information
on the person making the pawn, from his/her ID. She emphasized
that whether it be a military ID, an Alaska driver's license, an
Alaska ID, or another state ID, it has to have a photo. She
told members, "The whole point of it is to be able to say that
you're positive the person that you are doing the transaction
for is the same person on the ID."
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD offered that it doesn't seem the wording
in [HB 472] is clear about the type of identification card used;
it only requires giving the number of the card.
Number 497
MS. BRIDGES explained that [Anchorage's] municipal statute is at
least ten pages long and covers a lot more than [HB 472] does.
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD restated his question regarding whether
the person who is making the pawn actually knows that there's a
physical description being taken down.
MS. BRIDGES explained that a person who pawns an item is given a
copy of the pawn ticket. Most pawnshops - but not all - do it
on a computer and print out a "hard card" for the customer. She
described that on the pawn ticket there is a place for the
driver's license number, sex, race, age, height, weight, [color
of] hair, [color of] eyes, and date of birth. She said she
doesn't know if the customer is necessarily told the information
is being recorded, but the customer is provided a copy of the
ticket.
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD said that answers his question. He then
asked if it should be required that a record of a photo or a
photo ID of the person pawning the item should be kept. He
offered that it isn't in [HB 472] as far as he can tell.
Number 475
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT asked if this is putting the pawnshop owner
in the position of trying to guess someone's age and weight, or
if the customer fills out the form.
MS. ACHEE deferred the question to Detective Bridges.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT referred to Section 1, subsection (a)(6),
where it discusses naming the type of identification card used
to identify the customer. He then referred to Section 2,
subsection (b), which read:
The person actually conducting the transaction for
which a signature is required under (a)(6) of this
section shall verify the identity of the customer by
comparing the signature of the customer with the
signature on a driver's license, state identification
card, or other identification card issued by a
governmental entity to the customer.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT offered that he doesn't see that a photo ID
isn't being used. He said the clerk will be able to validate
who the customer is by not only a signature, but also a photo.
Number 459
MS. ACHEE offered that she believes a social security card can
also be accepted as identification. As was already discussed,
she said some Alaskan communities don't have photo equipment
available when creating state IDs for residents. She mentioned
that she has friends who, when attending college out of state,
lost their driver's license and had Alaska state IDs issued that
said "Picture not required" in place of the picture. So it is
possible to have a valid ID without a photograph on it.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT said in Alaska there are pictures on all
driver's licenses and state IDs. He offered that he doesn't
believe that anywhere is a social security card accepted as an
identification card. He said he has tried and was rejected, and
doesn't think a social security card even falls into the
category of an ID card. He recognized the problem with issuing
photo IDs and driver's licenses in rural Alaska. He mentioned
that the National Guard and the Air Guard would have an ID card.
Number 436
MS. BRIDGES asked, "How would they get the physical
descriptors?" She suggested it would be something one could get
off of a driver's license without asking the customer how much
he/she weighs or how tall the person is. Someone would just
have to ask for the ID card and then collect all the information
from the ID card. She offered that police reports have the same
type of information being discussed that can be gathered from an
ID card. In regard to some of the physical descriptors, she
said someone can just look at the customer and kind of guess on
the height and weight because it's not a major concern. She
emphasized, "The major concern is making sure that the person on
the ID card is the same person you're doing the transaction
for."
Number 425
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT offered that maybe [HB 472] should state
something like "approximate height and weight". He commented,
"I can show you my ID card. I look just look I did ten years
ago, but I can guarantee the weight is substantially different."
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD asked whether a State of Alaska voter ID
card that has a signature would be considered a sufficient form
of ID.
MS. BRIDGES said she doesn't think so. [Anchorage's municipal
code] is pretty specific and includes name, address, and
military serial number or driver's license number. Although Ms.
Bridges said she wasn't sure whether she could find it in the
statute, all pawnshops [in Anchorage] know that they're required
to check IDs, in order to "make sure that you are doing the
transaction for the person that they say they are." She offered
that if someone comes in and wants to make a transaction but
doesn't have a photo ID, the pawnshop will turn the person away.
Number 407
REPRESENTATIVE HAYES asked how much this program costs the
Municipality [of Anchorage] to implement every year. He said it
seems that not a lot of places in the state currently have this
type of program. He offered an example of a person from rural
Alaska who is visiting Anchorage for the day and wants to pawn
some items. He said if the person didn't have any type of
picture ID that would be acceptable, then he/she would have to
go to DMV and get an ID. He asked if it would be the
responsibility of the pawnshop owner to inform the customer of
the need to go through all these different steps.
Number 393
MS. BRIDGES said the pawnshops know they're required to check ID
when they do a loan; if a person who wants to pawn an item
doesn't have a picture ID, then the pawnshop is not going to be
able to do the transaction. She explained that it is up to the
customer who lacks a picture ID to make the effort to go to the
DMV and get a driver's license or an ID with a picture. It just
depends on how badly the person wants to pawn the item. She
stated:
I'm just not sure how big of a deal not having a
picture ID is, because I'm not sure how many of the
rural communities have pawnshops. ... And it just
seems to me that if, in fact, you do have a rural
community that has a pawnshop, then more than likely
the pawnshop owner would probably know pretty much
everybody in the community. And in that case they
wouldn't necessarily need to have picture ID, because
they know the person.
Number 376
CHAIR MURKOWSKI mentioned that other people online waiting to
testify might be able to offer some insight into that issue.
REPRESENTATIVE HAYES said he appreciates learning about what is
done in Anchorage, but is curious what is done elsewhere [in
Alaska]. He said if the same physical descriptions aren't
currently required in other sections of the state besides
Anchorage, then that would put a whole new system on those areas
that currently don't have those requirements.
Number 371
DAN HOFFMAN, Lieutenant, Fairbanks Police Department, testified
via teleconference. With regard to Representative Hayes's
question, he said this issue needs to be addressed on a
statewide basis. He said both Anchorage and Fairbanks have a
pawn ordinance in place. He mentioned a big problem is that
[Fairbanks] can make a change to the local ordinance, but it's
not going to affect all the pawnshops just outside the city
limits in the borough that don't have any enforcement authority.
It's not going to affect pawnshops in North Pole, for example,
or in the Matanuska-Susitna area. He offered his belief that a
tremendous amount of stolen property is stolen in Fairbanks on a
monthly basis and is trucked to the [Matanuska-Susitna] area and
Anchorage, where it is pawned, and vice versa. He continued:
It's because we're not centralized, and it's because
everybody's not on the same sheet of music here. ...
[There are] a lot of people who are stealing hundreds
of thousands of dollars' worth of stolen property to
just move [it] from one area to the next. So that's
why I think this bill is a first very important step
to get every place in the state online to where
everybody is having to do the same thing.
This bill is pretty generic. What I see as the real
main section of this bill, that ... state[wide] they
have to report to their local police department in a
format acceptable to that department, that's very
generic language. And that's probably as it should
be, because that's what's going to give your
individual municipalities the fair chance to structure
things how they want it.
Number 345
MR. HOFFMAN offered that he hopes [HB 472] is going to lay the
groundwork for every police department in the state - and
hopefully the chiefs of police association - to agree on a
single system. He mentioned that an online or web-based system
would hopefully be the acceptable reporting format. That way,
if somebody steals something in Palmer and two days later pawns
it in Anchorage or Fairbanks, that agency is going to be able to
report it to the agency that took the (indisc.) report and get
it resolved and get the item back to the owner.
Number 334
MR. HOFFMAN expressed:
I think if any of you ask any of your constituents in
any of the communities that you represent, you'll
find, I think, people are getting very fed up with the
amount of property theft that's going on in this
state. And I think anything we can do that's going to
facilitate getting people their property back is well
worth the effort.
Number 332
REPRESENTATIVE HAYES asked if the requirement that the pawnshop
record the physical description of the person pawning an item is
standard operating procedure across the entire state, and not
only in Anchorage and Fairbanks.
MR. HOFFMAN answered that he believes it's standard operating
procedure anywhere pawnshops are regulated. For example,
Fairbanks has an ordinance that requires all of the local
pawnshops to complete what are called pawn tickets, which are
the same as the pawn tickets that Detective Bridges said are
used in Anchorage. These use carbon copies. The person pawning
the property gets one copy, the pawnshop retains a copy, and
then the third copy goes to the police department.
Number 320
MR. HOFFMAN said Representative Hayes had brought up another
very good issue earlier about creating unfunded mandates and
whether this will create a big system that local departments
can't support. He described the problem in Fairbanks right now:
nearly all agencies are on a paper-based system; volunteers and
police go around and collect shoeboxes full of pawn tickets.
However, there isn't data-entry staff available to enter all
that information into a searchable database, as Anchorage does.
Mr. Hoffman continued:
That's why I say what we're looking at, down the road,
is really shifting the burden of data entry away from
governments and public agencies and putting this
directly on the pawn owners themselves. There's no
reason that when a pawn owner does a transaction that
they shouldn't immediately be inputting that
transaction into a computer record. ... Then that
either gets transferred online or we go around and
pick up a disc, as Anchorage is doing, and that
immediately gets sent up to a centralized database
[that] all law enforcement agencies can access.
I think every agency -- I know Anchorage, and I'm sure
the troopers, as well as us, we're all trying to work
harder and work smarter and work with the existing
technology. We don't have the budget to go hire a
bunch of data-entry clerks and do manual entry on pawn
tickets using 1950s technology. We really should be
moving forward and using the information technology
that's available out there.
Number 301
MR. HOFFMAN, referring to Representative Hayes's original
question, affirmed that it is standard operating procedure
throughout the pawn industry to obtain ID, obtain physical
descriptors, and confirm signatures.
Number 298
REPRESENTATIVE HAYES voiced his concern with the effect this
proposed state law would have on rural areas that have village
public safety officers (VPSOs) and lack any law enforcement
agency. He asked, "Is this law pretty much going into place for
the urban areas?"
MR. HOFFMAN answered, "I would say primarily, because I
personally don't believe that there are very many pawn and
secondhand stores out in the rural areas." He offered that
people [from a rural area] who have things they need to pawn
will probably bring them into Fairbanks or Anchorage when they
come into town. He said he has spent a lot of time working in
rural Alaska and has never seen a pawnshop.
MR. HOFFMAN expressed that he thinks the main part of [HB 472]
is it requires the pawnshops to report in a format acceptable to
the local police department. He said, "If your local police
department is the Alaska State Troopers post in, for example,
Shungnak, they may say it's acceptable to our police department
that we're not going to do this here, because it's not an
issue." He noted that it's urban areas like Fairbanks, Wasilla,
Palmer, Anchorage, or Juneau where local police departments will
probably want to develop a format for reporting and to require
pawnshops to submit reports.
Number 269
BERTHA BAUGUS, Roy's Pawn Shop, testified via teleconference,
noting that Delta Junction is considered rural Alaska and that
"we do have a pawn and a thrift store." Speaking of herself and
Roy Baugus, who was no longer available to testify that day, Ms.
Baugus said, "We've been here about 20 years and we've followed
all the rules and regulations [for a] store for pawn."
Number 254
MS. BAUGUS informed the committee that she doesn't have computer
access, so all [transactions are] handwritten in [a book]. She
said, "The main thing we were worried about is the buying and
selling of items in our thrift store and our pawnshop. ... For
what kind of items [are] you asking ... to be listed with
identification?"
MS. ACHEE answered that in the course of putting forward [HB
472], a big gray area opened up, and she thought "it would be a
good thing if this were a place where we could define what
exactly we're looking for." She said she hadn't considered
consignment shops, thrift stores, and the Salvation Army, for
example. Technically, a person who steals an item isn't
probably going to take it to the Salvation Army and drop it off
for free, but the Salvation Army is a dealer in secondhand
goods. She stated, "That does raise a big hole in our current
statute, and I think perhaps something along the lines of a
dollar amount, perhaps, or maybe an average dollar amount in
transactions for the store as a whole -- so that would
completely exempt things like thrift stores."
Number 232
CHAIR MURKOWSKI offered that it seems there is a substantial
difference between a pawnshop and a thrift store or consignment
shop. She suggested perhaps it just goes back to issue of
licensing for pawnbrokers. She said she doesn't know what those
requirements are, but mentioned that Ms. Baugus had raised an
interesting point that the sponsor should perhaps consider. She
asked Ms. Baugus if she had any further testimony.
MS. BAUGUS offered that Delta Junction is a small town; anybody
who brings in a stolen item is not going to pawn it and provide
a ID, but will try to sell the item. She said she also buys
things from people. She explained that she has been in Delta
Junction for "20-some years," knows just about everybody in
town, and doesn't always ask for an ID. She said when new
people come in that she doesn't know, she tries to get a
description. She said if a new person comes in selling two or
three videos for the thrift shop, she doesn't always ask for an
ID. She noted, "That's the limit [on] the amount I was talking
about." She also asked about the impact [of HB 472] on current
inventory.
CHAIR MURKOWSKI said she isn't certain.
Number 198
MS. ACHEE noted that [HB 472] lacks an effective date. She
offered that she doesn't think reports of current inventory
would be required, and that when an effective date is added, it
would be from that point forward. She said under current
statute, Ms. Baugus should have been entering all of her
transactions into a record book up to this time.
CHAIR MURKOWSKI reminded Ms. Achee that Ms. Baugus had indicated
that she has been keeping the record book, but that it's not
computerized.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT asked if there are any additional
pawnbrokers or secondhand store dealers waiting to testify. He
asked Ms. Baugus how many transactions she has over the course
of a week.
Number 184
MS. BAUGUS explained that Delta Junction is a small town and
some weeks she might have two pawned items, and some weeks she
might have six or seven items. She said, "That's about our
limit."
CHAIR MURKOWSKI informed Representative Kott that there weren't
other pawnbrokers or secondhand dealers online waiting to
testify.
Number 171
JULIA GRIMES, Lieutenant, Division of Alaska State Troopers,
Department of Public Safety, testified via teleconference. She
said she was online to listen and to answer any questions. She
explained that she hasn't been able to get together with Captain
Brown to find out what he has discussed with the sponsor, and
said she hesitates to add a whole lot. She mentioned that the
state troopers throughout the state want to be able to cooperate
and work in concert with any police department to "have a large
net around the state to try to be effective in finding and
recovering stolen property." She concluded, "So we certainly
are in support of the intent of this bill."
Number 155
REPRESENTATIVE HAYES expressed surprise that [HB 472] has a zero
fiscal note. He asked Ms. Grimes, if the state troopers don't
currently record any of this information, whether the cost will
just be absorbed into current operations.
MS. GRIMES surmised that would be the case. With regard to the
fiscal note, she said she suspects that the reports from the
more rural areas would not be substantial, and could be filed or
entered into a computer database with little impact. She
suggested it wouldn't be a whole lot more than just creating
either a hardcopy or a computerized database. She offered to do
further research on this issue.
Number 122
MS. BRIDGES added that she frequently gets pawn tickets from
out-of-state agencies. She'd just received one from Longview,
Washington, for example, and one from Mesa, Arizona, and both
have physical descriptors. She offered that "it's a nationwide
thing to put physical descriptors on the pawn ticket."
MS. ACHEE agreed and said Arizona, Florida, and Illinois also
require a physical description, so it's not completely unusual.
She added:
Since this scenario has arisen where someone could
present a false ID, having a physical description of
the person in addition to a name off an ID card is
probably a good thing. Whether the pawnshops are
reading it straight off the ID or actually looking at
the person is another question.
MS. ACHEE related her understanding that if stolen property is
found, the pawnshop loses the money it paid to the person who
pawned the item; she surmised that Detective Bridges might be
able to verify that assumption. She added, "Perhaps if you
could identify that person with certainty, then the pawnshop has
some civil [action] against them."
MS. BRIDGES said Ms. Achee's interpretation is correct. She
added that if [the APD is] able to prosecute, it requests
restitution for the pawnshop as part of the penalty or as part
of the punishment if the thief is found guilty. She said if the
pawnshops wanted to go as far as putting a lien on the thief's
permanent fund [dividend], for example, the courts can order
restitution.
Number 084
CHAIR MURKOWSKI acknowledged that there have been some good
issues and points of concern raised. She said without going too
far with HB 472, and looking at the statutes that regulate
pawnshops, she believes there is probably some room to update
and revise certain areas of that statute. She continued:
Specifically, when it refers to the book, you'd hate
to think that what is happening in Anchorage and
Fairbanks is being done of violation of the statutes
right now. But from what I've heard and what I'm
reading, it sounds like that's possibly the case. So
this could be a good opportunity to really bring the
statutes current. And then I think - just in [terms
of] how we can deal with this issue of the
consignment, the thrift shops, the Play It Again
Sports scenario - I think this is a good opportunity
to kind of work it through.
CHAIR MURKOWSKI offered her time and her staff's time to work
with Representative Green to find a good way to do this.
Number 061
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT suggested that in working with the sponsor
and his staff, Representative Murkowski might also consult with
some of the pawnbrokers. He said he was hoping to hear from
some pawnbrokers to see if the proposed recording mechanism used
to submit to the police department is onerous. He said he was
curious how many transactions a pawnbroker might have in a week.
He said he's never been in a pawnshop. He suggested that if
there are thousands of transactions a month, maybe a threshold
should be established whereby only items valued at over $5 need
to be recorded.
Number 040
MS. ACHEE added that unfortunately the local representative for
the National Pawnbrokers Association was unable to testify today
because she was out of town.
CHAIR MURKOWSKI said she thinks this can be worked through and
offered to help, but without forming a subcommittee. She
thanked the sponsor and all who'd testified. [HB 472 was held
over.]
HB 128-EMPLOYMENT OF MINORS IN AGRICULTURE
TAPE 02-30, SIDE A
Number 001
CHAIR MURKOWSKI announced that the final order of business would
be HOUSE BILL NO. 128, "An Act relating to employment of certain
minors in agriculture." She noted that last year HB 128 was
assigned to a subcommittee chaired by Representative Rokeberg.
Number 036
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG moved that the committee adopt the
proposed committee substitute (CS) [version 22-LS0373\O, Kramer,
2/7/02], which was recommended by the subcommittee, as the
working document. There being no objection, Version O was
before the committee.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG remarked that the primary issue is in
regard to the seven-day [time period for the employer to file
the written parental consent].
CHAIR MURKOWSKI related her understanding that the issue is in
regard to whether the seven days is adequate, too much, or too
little.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG agreed.
Number 079
REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN, Alaska State Legislature, testified
as the sponsor of HB 128. In regard to the seven-day issue, he
related his belief that it's a compromise. He acknowledged that
in some parts of the state it may be difficult to meet the
seven-day requirement. He remarked, "I think this is good,
commonsense legislation." Furthermore, Representative Ogan said
he feels this legislation will result in a cost savings to the
Department of Labor & Workforce Development (DLWD), because it
won't have to deal with every case.
Number 104
REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO highlighted that the title of the bill has
been broadened quite a bit. Originally, the bill addressed only
agriculture, whereas now it addresses all industries.
Representative Halcro inquired as to whether Representative Ogan
is supportive of broadening the title to include all industries.
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN replied yes. Although this legislation
began in an attempt to address agriculture, he felt it would
work well with all employers of minors.
Number 139
REBECCA NANCE GAMEZ, Deputy Commissioner, Office of the
Commissioner, Department of Labor & Workforce Development,
announced that the department is comfortable with moving forward
with Version O. There is a draft fiscal note of $22,500 for a
one-time expense for legal services, public notices, hearing
space, and revising and reprinting posters and pamphlets. The
fiscal note will be transmitted tomorrow. She related her
belief that [Version O] is a good compromise.
CHAIR MURKOWSKI asked whether the seven-day period is workable
for the department.
Number 166
RICHARD MASTRIANO, Director, Division of Labor Standards &
Safety, Department of Labor & Workforce Development, testified
via teleconference, saying the seven-day requirement is
reasonable and acceptable. Although the [department] would like
that time to be shorter, everyone is compromising [with the
seven days]. He pointed out that if the legislation works as it
should, then [the division] will have reviewed the jobs prior to
the minors' working.
CHAIR MURKOWSKI asked whether [the division] has to have the
original copy and thus the "written consent" could be faxed.
She also asked whether [the division] can accept the consent
form from the parent in writing.
MR. MASTRIANO replied yes. He explained that the plan is to
redesign the current work permit and use it for parental
consent. [The division] currently accepts a parental signature
that is faxed.
Number 194
REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO recalled testimony in hearings last year
that the turnaround time for these approvals was fairly quick.
He inquired as to how this worked last summer.
MR. MASTRIANO answered that the turnaround time was a bit longer
this summer due to [the division's] shortage of personnel. He
explained that usually the division assigns one investigator
daily to review the work permits, and one clerk. However, the
[division] was short an investigator and there was difficulty
keeping a clerk in that position. In some cases, the turnaround
time was about three days, although every effort was made to
respond within 24 hours.
MR. MASTRIANO, in further response to Representative Halcro,
said there have been instances in which the applicant was
denied. For example, he recalled a couple of instances in which
minors were employed in establishments that sold alcohol; those
minors weren't old enough to work in those establishments and
thus were denied. He also recalled a denial for a child who
wasn't old enough to work in the construction area.
Number 247
LARRY DeVILBISS, Wolverine Farm & Farm Bureau, testified via
teleconference. Mr. DeVilbiss thanked Representatives Ogan and
Rokeberg for working this out. Last week, he noted, this
[legislation] was presented to the Alaska Farm Bureau, which
supports the bill even though it is broader than it was
originally. Mr. DeVilbiss pointed out that he'd read [Version
O] to allow the old option to be used if it works and if some
elements of this [legislation] don't work in some industries.
Mr. DeVilbiss said it seems to be a win-win situation.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG explained that the bill requires a
preinspection, but [the division] can default to [subsection
(a)], which requires sending in the application and obtaining
approval; the youth can work until there is a response [from the
division]. He agreed that this is a win-win situation.
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER moved to report CSHB 128 [version 22-
LS0373\O, Kramer, 2/7/02] out of committee with individual
recommendations and the pending fiscal note. There being no
objection, CSHB 128(L&C) was moved out of the House Labor and
Commerce Standing Committee.
CHAIR MURKOWSKI mentioned the possibility that HB 128 would
receive an additional referral to the House Finance Committee
due to the pending fiscal note.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, the House
Labor and Commerce Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at
5:10 p.m.
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